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Writer's pictureLars Neumann

The Coaching Game: Lars Neumann in Interview with Laurie Lawson, Former President of ICF New York City – "Photography as ideal way of coaching sensitive service providers"



In this podcast episode, I had the pleasure of reconnecting with Laurie Lawson to discuss my work at Image Distillery, where I blend photography and coaching to help sensitive business professionals discover and express their true essence. We explored how photography can serve as a powerful tool for self-discovery and marketing, particularly for those who may feel overlooked or misunderstood in traditional business environments.


I shared insights about the unique challenges faced by sensitive individuals in the business world, including the "chameleon dilemma," the "courage dilemma," and the "blind spot dilemma." These concepts highlight the importance of recognizing one's sensitivity as an asset rather than a flaw. Through personal anecdotes and examples, I illustrated how my coaching approach helps clients uncover their unique qualities and transform their businesses.


We also discussed the process of working with clients, which can range from one-day sessions to year-long journeys, culminating in powerful photographic representations of their true selves. I emphasized the significance of creating a safe space for clients to explore their identities and aspirations for the sake of eventually leaving their safe-spot for a world that is their true comfort-zone.


Overall, it was a fantastic opportunity to share my passion for helping others embrace their sensitivity and leverage it for success in their personal and professional lives. I invite listeners to connect with me at this website and especially to read the Self-Image Magazine to connect with my work and their own essence and all the opportunities that come with it: https://www.larsneumann.photography/selbstbildmagazin




See also Interview #1 Laurie Lawson & Lars Neumann on "The Amazing Symbiosis of Coaching and Portrait Photography"



The complete interview:


Laurie Lawson:

Welcome to coaching game. I'm Laurie Lawson. And I am so thrilled to have a repeat person that a repeat person named Lars Newman. Hey, Lars, how you doing?


Lars Neumann:

Hey, Laurie. Thank you very much for having me again.


Laurie Lawson:

Oh, my gosh. Well, I wrote him and I said, What you doing? Because I knew he was doing something because he's always doing something. I got this new thing going on now. So let me I'm going to tell you We're going to talk a little bit about photography and images, because that is Laura's specialty, and we'll find out all about it. But let me tell you how that connection works and how photography can bring it all together. Because Laura was a presenter last year on this fantastic symposium on photography and coaching. And our friend, Dorita Ranisiewska, oh, messed that one up, but that's OK, had put it together. And when I saw him and he said what he was doing with photographs with executives, I said, what? That can't be. So we had him on the show. And sure enough, that's what he was doing. And this year, he's got more exciting things going on. And I had met Dorota for a game called Points of View. which was all images and photography. And it just came full circle. It was so cool. So I think Lars has tapped into that when it comes to the business world and the executive world and has done some fantastic things with it. So last year, Lars, you were working on, I'm gonna stop talking now, you were working on image distillery. Tell us a little bit about what that is.


Lars Neumann:

Yes, the image distillery is just a brand name in the first place. So it's a brand name for what I do. So I thought of what should I call the thing that I put together. So photography, business photography, and business coaching, but it's not coaching only. It's not photography only. It's both. So what should I call it? I call it the image distillery because we distill two images, an inner image, a clear inner image, and we distill photographic images from the inner image. So the distillery is quite a good name for that, I think, because it's like distilling in essence.


Laurie Lawson:

Yes, yes. Let me give you an example, because what was so fascinating, first of all, if you just look at Lawrence's photography, forget about all the coaching stuff. It is exquisite, and you hope someday you're going to see him do a lot more with that. But right now, he's busy doing this stuff. But one thing, he got this top executive to pose outside in the stream. And I'm going, well, how did you make that happen? Explain the essence of that photo, please, sir.


Lars Neumann:

Yes, I do. Thank you for inviting me to explain it a little bit. Yeah, a business person who rules his own company and who wanted to show in his advertising, in his marketing, the exquisiteness of himself and thought about a designer chair, a designer room and himself in designer clothes. So what do you think about when you say, oh, let's sell high ticket items? But when I listened to him, he only thought, he only talked about getting up very early, going hiking and climbing with his clients, and all the things, meditating in the morning when it's freezing, all the things. And what I saw before my inner eyes was Yeah, him going through this icy creek in a rocky landscape. And to my surprise, it was exactly where he lived. I haven't known where he lived, but he lived exactly there. So we only had to go to his house, and besides the house was the creek, and we had to take the photos at 7 a.m. It was so true, but we have known that it is so true. That is his kind of essence we depict in the picture. So from that, just a different kind of marketing goes on and a different kind of development. Also, a different kind of product development, a different kind of thinking about his niche. All these things come from that. That's the interesting part then, afterwards.


Laurie Lawson:

And it's so interesting because I don't want to say you broke down a wall, but you took it to the next step. Because when you think an executive, of course, you're going to think of a fancy desk and a leather chair on a corner office and all that. But when you see this picture, which is so beautifully executed and photographed, you go, what? And then you see, Reed, he owns this company. It's like, oh my god. Already, you're inside. You know what I mean? open the door, the door has been opened for you. And which is just amazing. And that's kind of what you're still doing this, yes?


Lars Neumann:

I'm still doing this, and I'm doing it deeper and deeper. And what I discovered, and I think that's what we meet about today, you were interested in the sensitive business coaches, the sensitive service providers. And for them, it's really, really important to be recognized. For not so sensitive, for more robust persons, it's okay to be just in a business person it's not so good but it's okay to be recognized just as the other business persons like everyone is but for sensitive people it's really really important to be recognized as themselves to be seen as who you are and that is what i do for them to yeah to distill the essence of this very person


Laurie Lawson:

I think it gives you a competitive edge, even though people might not be aware of it. But my question, I think last time was, and this time still is, it's like, are the people that you're dealing with, are they going, oh, my God, I want to be more sensitive? Or is it a matter of a process? It's like, something's not right in my company my employers are you know disillusioned at that well how how do these i don't understand how you get these people to do these fantastic things how does that work this is really a kind of process you are right laurie um yeah it's really kind of um


Lars Neumann:

They notice something is not like they want to, but they don't know what it is. It's always the same. They don't know what's going on because they work so hard. And when things don't go the way they want, they think, just let's work harder. Let's work more. And when this doesn't turn up as a success, sometimes they even burn out. and sometimes then the point comes they are open to more to different kind of solutions so often on that way we meet


Laurie Lawson:

Yeah, perfect. Boy, are they lucky. Are they lucky to meet you? So the program that you come up with this year, or maybe I'm not sure when you came up with it, but the one that you're concentrating on is sensitivity in the business world. God knows you could throw it into the political world, in my country anyway, please. Tell us a little bit about that. What made you say, you know what? I see a need here. I'm going to go fill it.


Lars Neumann:

What made you do that? Let me tell you, it's my own history.


Laurie Lawson:

I love it.


Lars Neumann:

It's my own history. I haven't known. I have known when we met last time, but I did research. And what I discover much more clearly is that it's about sensitivity. So what I say to my customers nowadays is if you're a sensitive person, only 20 to 30 percent of people are sensitive persons. the other one I call the more robust person, they are needed, we all are needed as we are, but there are sensitive person and highly sensitive people is for me just the next step, but sensitive person. And for them, for us, we have different business rules. This is what I say, just simple as that. The common business rules to be allowed to be very strong to be, you know what I mean.


Laurie Lawson:

You can't let your, you gotta always know the answer and you gotta always, yeah, you have to, yeah.


Lars Neumann:

Outgoing and every, this is, it doesn't work for us. So sometimes we burn out with doing that more and more, not knowing our sensitive nature. So that's why, because backwards, I see, that I am a sensitive person and that I always was, and that this was the problem all the time, that I have known I acted like a normal person, but I was sensitive and something was missing and I didn't know what. So I always wanted to be a colleague of mine. This is really a good sentence. A client and colleague of mine told me last time, now I know I always I only do VIP. I only do VIP. I can't do something different. And that's a good sentence for that. I too only can VIP. So when I have a customer, he's a VIP. I notice him or her. I notice the needs. they don't have to say so much because I feel it. I'm sensitive. And so it's always overgiving when you don't know. It's overgiving, underpaying, ineffectiveness. So you have to know you're sensitive and then you can organize your business in a new way. You can organize it better.


Laurie Lawson:

Fantastic. So you took what you thought was a flaw. It's like, why am I not fitting in? Why am I getting bullied? What's going on? And turned it into, hey, this is an asset and I'm going to go get other people. Wow. That's amazing. I love people who use their own experience and soar, and you have soared with this, I do believe. You wrote a magazine article. Unfortunately, I can't read it because it's in German, but hey, you found out what it was. So people are obviously catching on.


Lars Neumann:

Yeah, it's not only a magazine article, it's a whole magazine. It's a whole magazine about this topic of sensitive business service providers. So if somebody watching is not speaking German, no problem. Just come to me and I will provide an English version. May take two days or so, but I will provide an English version. A whole magazine about how can I notice, how do I notice in my all day business life these signs, these little signs you see all day, like not like being a chameleon, like you adjust to every person but you are not seen as who you are and all these things. You have the feeling of needing a kind of coming out. You don't dare to come out with the wholeness of yourself. All these little signs and I 12. I put together 12 of these and made a whole magazine and so that people can start working with their own asset. And this is what I want to tell people like you did. Thank you, Laurie. This is an asset. This sensitivity is an asset. And even as coaches, so we are so blessed when we are sensitive, intuitive, sensitive. This is for us as coaches, the best gift we can have.


Laurie Lawson:

Absolutely. And I think with emotional intelligence, I know that's passe now, but I think vulnerability became like, well, maybe it's not so bad to not know everything and not be able to do everything. Vulnerability, and admit that you're wrong, is becoming more and more an asset, like what you were saying. I know with the signs, you said there were 12 urgent. You used the word urgent sign. Could you tell us a few of them? You said like not coming out. What are some of the, and believe it or not, he deals with these signs with photography, but first tell us the signs if you can. First of all, let me tell you, is your magazine for sale or is it just accessible to the public?


Lars Neumann:

It's kind of for sale, so I sell it for contact. So give me your contact and I give you the magazine. This is the deal.


Laurie Lawson:

Okay, because then in that case I don't want you to give away everything because I want people to get your magazine. But give us a hint.


Lars Neumann:

No problem. I want to spread the word. It's really, really good. I would say I tell you the three most important and you can read about them in the blog post article that is even in English at my website. So the first is, like I said, the chameleon dilemma. So you have the advantage to um sense every person and to adjust to every person but the disadvantage is for the market they can't see you they can't recognize you because you are with every person you are so different and that's for your positioning really a problem so but it's an asset for the customer so just deal with it that it's like it is and the second is the let me I have to think about my three steps now. The courage dilemma, I call it the courage dilemma. This is about this coming out. So you know, somehow you know that you're more, you think you're too much. You often think you're too much for the people. What you feel, what you see, what your intuition says. You think it's quite too much for people. For them, it seems esoteric. It seems too spiritual or something. And you don't dare to come out with all your wholeness. But have the courage to do. This is your asset. This is the second dilemma I see. And the third is the blind spot dilemma. So what I really see often is that people, sensitive people, how should they know how to rule a business? From schools, from all the other colleagues, from your industry. So they pick up from that and they model that. And what they don't see about themselves is all the specialties they have. And it's so much more than the average of their industry all the time, all the time. So there's a huge blind spot every time I work with people. So these are the three. And when you notice with yourself, I work so hard, but something is missing. I see I work hard, but there must be more success. There must be more fulfillment. But I can't see why this is the blind spot dilemma at work.


Laurie Lawson:

Wow. Tell me a little bit more about the blind spot. it's like okay they what what is it that they can't see they can't see how how their unique qualities can enhance what they're doing or they can't see what can't they see


Lars Neumann:

Let me tell you a story.


Laurie Lawson:

Oh, I love stories.


Lars Neumann:

Yeah, sorry. Story time. Now, again, and let me tell you, I have a client and she rules a company for, I don't know in English, advertising techniques. So light boxes and letters at shops and the signs on the windows and all these things. And she's quite successful. Money is not the problem. But over the years, despite her success, she quite burned out a little bit. So she told myself, it was for me, the feeling was, just for the money. It's still just for the money. It's not anymore my business just for the money. It's no fun and it's dark. And when we worked together we saw yet this is all her basic. She learned it from her father, everything's okay. But what she hadn't noticed, what her blind spot was, was her sensitivity, was her huge and strong intuition, and that with every customer she already did something else. She already gave much, much more. she gave, and she calls it the cam dialogue in English, a core dialogue, a core dialogue about the core of their customers. So the lady who rules the flower shop, but the lady doesn't come only for the sign to her, but to talk, to talk about her sorrow, to talk about all these things, and she does it all the time. But she gives it away. She hasn't noticed. She hasn't noticed what huge information, what rich information she gets from the customers while the dialogue and what she can turn it into much more individual products and all these things. It was a huge blind spot. Just one of her.


Laurie Lawson:

I got it.


Lars Neumann:

Okay. So often it is like you give it away already but you don't notice.


Laurie Lawson:

And so when you notice, you can accentuate it, you can enhance it, you can tweak it and make it better and make you a better leader.


Lars Neumann:

And yes, you can make it better. You can position yourself like that. You can say it to the world. You have words now. You have a language now for that. So you have a much more concrete and a laser sharp positioning now like the lighthouse so the lighthouse signal gets much more clearer so the the right ships come to you and you can include it into your program and i noticed it with much many of my clients that their little program their standard program industry standard program now is 10 times or 20 times larger than that um when you see the product level they can sell. So it's a much different level from selling a lightbox to selling one month of being there for you and then make the right advertisement and the right light boxes exactly for you. It's quite a different product. It's quite a different sale.


Laurie Lawson:

That's amazing. It makes me want to take your coaching. I can think of so many people who are I can think of so many people who the blind spot is fascinating to me, because if you don't know, then you're going to keep doing what you're doing. And I think almost everybody in the coaching world that I know. but you know, climb to the top or didn't climb to the top, but they go, Oh my God, there's something else. And I can't get it. I just can't not getting that fulfilled feeling. And then you, you take a little bit of coaching and you go, Oh, okay. And then you start expanding, which is what I hear you say that you're doing now, where does photography come into this? Because I know that you're kind of dealing with those, um, warning signs, so to speak, With photography, how? Yes.


Lars Neumann:

With this lady I talked about, it was first the coaching part, like always, and we have noticed there is a kind of safe spot for her. She remains in the safe spot. She kind of knows there's something different, there's something more fun, there's something huge, but she remains in the safe spot and she hadn't known why. And then we talked about photography what could be only in photography only in your imagination a good word for you a good context for you a good location for you just think about as a photographic motif. And we came along with motifs like South of Italy, so being under the sun, living your life well, and being at the balcony and all these things. And after a long talk, she said, no, no, it's not Italy. Now I feel it. It's Scotland. And when she said to me, when she told me Scotland, I noticed my body reacting. I said, that's so right, because she is Scotland. She is like climbing rocks. She is like, I don't know what it's called, the bow. She is like a Scotland lady. So we flew to Scotland and we had our photo shoot for four days long. We were there, we sat there, we walked there, she climbed the mountains and when I looked at the camera and looked up, what is she doing there? She's climbing up the mountains. So I documented her in Scotland and you can imagine what it does for her nowadays to look at her Scotland photos and see herself going so widely but so with so much fun and enthusiasm and um out of the safe spot out of her white out of her little comfort zone yeah but i call it safe spot because this is much more comfortable now this is the the crazy thing about that the new world is much more comfortable for her than the old that's why i call it safe spot and not comfort zone


Laurie Lawson:

Yeah, I like the better really the safe spot. Yeah, yeah. Wow. And that's just him. First of all, you got a cool trip to Scotland, but how helpful that is. That's amazing. I've got to say, and I've already praised and I will continue to always praise your photography. You got to be one hell of a coach. You must be to get that out of people to Peel that onion till you get to the, you know, the real layer. Yeah, it's over. I know this can't be like a one-shot deal. Is this a long process? I know it depends on the client, but do you have steps or does it just come naturally? It's like, oh, now is the time to broach the image of what would make you happy. Is it a prescribed program or do you again you're sensitive do you just go on your intuition and all that stuff


Lars Neumann:

Yeah now, um, it's both i have three kind of three levels and i symbolize them in whiskey bottles so you have the one day and you have the 30 days and you have the 365 days whiskey or essence And you can imagine the one day essence is just like solving this problem, solving this shot I need now, but it needs to be really authentic. This is the one day thing. But you learn something about yourself when you do it. you have a clearer image or you have a clear photographic image for yourself and you can go on if you want. But the 30-day is more intense. Of course we can go this journey like we did with her but in the 365 days with her I work for a whole year now and or i've been working so the english uh the for a whole year now because we still work and these um then it can ripen is it the right word in english yeah developing yeah and um then we can at some point point there is a kind of unspoken agreement she noticed now i'm ready to be photographed now i'm ready to be uh to use my fantasy and to use my intuition and now i'm ready to go out of my comfort zone and um then we do it wow wow yeah and in this case it was two two months after we started i think


Laurie Lawson:

Amazing the fact that you do it at all no matter how long it takes it's just it makes me jealous i want to be over there so i can do it with you but um let me let me because we only have like a minute left how on earth can people get in touch with you how can they see your work?


Lars Neumann:

lausneumann.photography this is the url and i think it's quite interesting to go around there and i think google chrome can translate [into English] so yes so and will they find the magazine on there also yeah


Laurie Lawson:

You know, you gotta come back. I said it last time, I'm saying it this time, because Lawrence is planning a retreat. Can you imagine that? Oh, what a thing. But that's in the works, and he's doing so many other things. Lawrence. I'm so glad we met, first of all. And every time I talk to you, it's like, well, how are you doing that? And you and you keep advancing it, which is taking your advantage and just spreading it out. So thank you so much for being a part of the coaching game again. And we know it won't be the last time because I'm going to invite you back. But thank you so much. And everybody get in touch with Lars Newman dot photography.


Lars Neumann:

Thank you very much, Laurie.


Laurie Lawson:

Thank you.

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