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Writer's pictureLars Neumann

The Coaching Game: Lars Neumann in Interview with Laurie Lawson, Former President of ICF New York City – "The Amazing Symbiosis of Coaching and Portrait Photography"



In my conversation with Laurie Lawson on her NYC TV show "The Coaching Game," I had the pleasure of sharing my journey from photography to coaching and the unique blend of both that has led to the creation of what I call "Personality Photography." Growing up in a family of photographers, I initially resisted following in my father's footsteps. However, as I delved deeper into the world of photography, I realized what was missing. This led me to explore coaching, which allowed me to connect with people on a more profound level than just taking photos.


During our discussion, I explained how my approach to photography evolved. By integrating coaching techniques, I began to ask deeper, more personal questions that helped my clients express their true selves through images. This process culminated in the development of the "Image Distillery," a brand and my intensive program that combines coaching and photography to create powerful visual representations of individuals' values and identities. An invaluable foundation for long lasting success and personal fulfillment the same time.


We also touched on the exciting retreat I am planning, aimed at helping sensitive service providers break free from the constraints of their industry boxes. This retreat will provide a safe space for participants to explore their unique business design and connect with themselves through photography, using just their mobile phones for example.


As we navigated through the conversation, I reflected on the impact of the pandemic on business owners. It has been a time of forced disruption, prompting many to rethink their paths and embrace creativity. I shared my excitement about launching an institute in collaboration with Steinbeis, focusing on the connection between values, value and imagery, which will offer courses for photographers, agencies and business owners.


I invite you to listen to the full show episode to learn more about my work and the innovative ways I am merging photography and coaching. Feel free to also explore this website or instantly dive deeper into the topic of Self-Image with receiving a free copy of the Selbstbild Magazin (German). Thank you for joining me on this journey, and I look forward to connecting with you further!




 

The complete Interview


Laurie Lawson:

Hi, welcome to the coaching game. I am Laurie Lawson and tonight my guest is Lars Newman. Lars, I am so thrilled to have you here, especially since I kept giving him the wrong time. It's like, Oh, show up now. So he figured it out. So thank heavens. I'm glad you did. Yes. Let me tell you how I came to know about Lars. Dorota Rana Zewski, Rana Zewski, I always screw up her name, put together her amazing skills as a coach and a photographer and came up with the first time ever symposium on photography and coaching. And Laura was one of the presenters and I went, oh my gosh, what is he talking about? That sounds so exciting. So I bequested and asked him to please come on and tell us about what he's doing with photography, which I think is pretty innovative. So, Lars, tell me first, how did you, I'm assuming that photography came before coaching, but I could be wrong. How did you get into photography?


Lars Neumann:

Yes. First, Laurie, thank you for having me. And yeah, I jump right into the question. And yeah, my father is a photographer. That's the short answer. I just originally didn't want to be a photographer, but I grew up in photography and my father was it. So I was one too.


Laurie Lawson:

Well, thank heavens, because I looked at his website. I do not read German, but the pictures are exquisite, just exquisite. And so I'm so glad, I'm so glad that you were born into the profession. So when did coaching come along for you?


Lars Neumann:

This was, uh, the year was, I would say, 2010, but it came along with, um, with a search. I was searching for something. I didn’t know what I was searching for in photography because I learned photography as a profession here in Germany and there was something missing, and I didn’t know what was missing. I knew how to construct photos, how to construct, write photos, write passport photos or application photos, but there was something missing. And when I started to ask people questions about them, I had so many ideas, but I didn’t know how to turn them into pictures and I didn’t know if I was allowed to ask those private questions. So I stopped. And I noticed that I needed more tools for that, for asking and for being curious. So that’s how coaching came into my life.


Laurie Lawson:

That's amazing. Tell me, do you remember what other avenues you pursued before you got to coaching? I think that's fascinating that you ended up on coaching. Do you remember some of the other things that you said, oh, maybe that? And it's like, no, that doesn't work. What else did you try?


Lars Neumann:

Many, many avenues, yes. So I learned traditionally to have a studio and go into the chemical darkroom in those days, 1989 it started. And then we thought we needed a shop. Then we thought we needed branches. Then we thought we needed to develop pictures, so the films, the chemical films, in one hour. You know, perhaps you still know these old shops where you could develop photos in one hour. The one-hour photo, yeah. And then we had to go to the big city, we thought, and we thought we had to do everything in photography from weddings and people and for, I don’t know, applications, passports, families, everything. And everything of that didn’t work out for me. Everything. So it cost so much, but it didn’t work out for me.


Laurie Lawson:

So what made coaching the one? What made you say, ah, this is finally what I'm looking for?


Lars Neumann:

Laurie, this is an interesting question because I just don’t know. I think it’s how I am, or who I am. I think I was born as a coach, so to speak. I’m so curious about people. But I didn’t know when I started the profession at 16 years old. I didn’t know that I was a coach, a natural coach. I need to know people. I feel a lot when they come to me. I feel when they are happy or not happy. But I think I had to discover it through a journey of what I don’t want to do. So eventually I found out what I want to do, and that was coaching and combining it with photography, the profession I already knew. This was a kind of an adventure from 2010 on, but yeah, something developed from that.


Laurie Lawson:

Let me tell you, Lars, that is an international story because everyone that I know, and I know a lot of coaches, we all went around saying, it’s got to be something more. And we were from all professions. And it was just like, something is missing. And then when we finally discovered coaching, it was like, I’ve been doing that all along. It’s like, you mean that’s a profession? I can get paid for this? Wow. So that is not just unique to you and your location. As far as I know, it’s all over the world. It’s like, oh, this is something that I know I’ve been doing, and I know I could do. On your website, again, it says that you invented personality photography. How did you do that, and what is it?


Lars Neumann:

Yes, it’s more a combination of being more curious than I thought I was allowed to be in photography. So to ask seemingly private questions. But when I have a sense of something missing, something not spoken about, I have to ask. So adding this to photography—portrait photography, business photography, and application photos—makes them much richer. So I know people’s values, and then I can bring them into the motif, into the idea of the picture. And this was a gradual way, I would say. This was not done in one day. But what I noticed was there must be a name for that. I can’t call it business photography. I can’t call it application photography because people know those boxes. And my photography didn’t fit into a box. So there had to be a new name for that, and personality photography came out of my mind.


Laurie Lawson:

Hallelujah for out of the box. Yeah. So how does that work? Do you set up a session with the person prior to the photography or do you ask as you're taking pictures, or do you have a method, or does it just organically happen when you meet the person?


Lars Neumann:

Yes. In the first years, sometimes they came, had their appointment, and I just asked more questions. I was just more curious. With that came the problem of how to price that because I couldn’t do it for 70 euros anymore in those days. And fast forward to today, now it has developed into a whole program. I call that program today the Image Distillery. So the personality photography is a part of the Image Distillery. I say Image Distillery on purpose because it has two meanings in English and in German too. So a self-image, the mental self-image, but also a picture, just a photo or a picture. And this is what I do. So I try to bring the picture, their unconscious picture, to consciousness in their mind, what we do in coaching, their self-picture. But then I take the camera and try to make a photographic metaphor for that. And then we take the picture, and then we discuss the picture. And it’s really, really interesting what happens during the photo shoot. There’s always something happening, always something by chance or not planned. But you can see so many things. And when people discuss their own photos, they discover so many little things about themselves, or huge things they hadn’t thought of. And yeah, that’s why they brought their body into motion. And then they see themselves much better.


Laurie Lawson:

Good gosh, do you do this in one session or many sessions?


Lars Neumann:

No, today it’s, I would say, at least three if not five sessions.


Laurie Lawson:

Oh, good, because I was going to say if you leave them wondering about or discovering all these insights, it’s like, where do they go? So they go to you, which is great. What did you find is different about the photos that you were taking and then when you added coaching? What would you find are the major differences in those photographs?


Lars Neumann:

What a good question. Because I guess some outsiders, some strangers, so to speak, who look at the photos may or may not see a difference, wouldn’t see a difference. But what the owner of the picture and I feel is so different. We feel so different. It feels so strong to be portrayed in your strong environment, in your gestures, with your partners, but not with customers you don’t like. So I give you an example. I had a coach, also a coach, a colleague of ours. And he wanted to move into a new office, and he created a beautiful office with design furniture and everything. And he thought because everyone does it, he had to have a picture in his new design chair. And when I talked to him, I noticed, yes, he’s a beautiful man, and the design chair, everything’s okay. But that’s not what he is because he always talked about, he didn’t notice, but he talked about getting up very early, then being there for his three children, then going out, and if it’s winter or summer, going out in minus degrees, and no matter what, he goes out under the trees and meditates. So it felt like he would push people upon a rock or upon the Rocky Mountains or something. He felt really strong. So I had a picture in my mind, and this is what happens with me. I see pictures the longer I talk to people. I see pictures. And I saw an inner picture of him walking through a creek. It was in the morning. I saw morning. I saw the steam coming out of his mouth. I saw him walking through a cold creek, but in his suit. He had to, I don’t know how to say, roll up his trousers a little bit and walk through. And this is exactly what we did. So he was so excited about this, but he couldn’t imagine this kind of motif, this kind of imagery. But yes, we went to a creek. It was by accident or incident, just beside his house. So yes, we just had to go to his house, to the creek, at 7 a.m. in the morning. And then we had this feeling of a man who pushes himself beyond limits, who does the extra mile all the time. So this is one, and in the suit, he is beautiful too in this creek. So I think this is an image that shows who he really is, much more than the picture we would have taken in the design chair, like every coach has.


Laurie Lawson:

And you didn’t bring the designer chair to the creek. Good for you. How courageous. What a masterful view. Wow. That brings up a question to me, because I believe you do work with mostly executives and business people. Is that right? Or is it a broader scope?


Lars Neumann:

Business owners. Business owners.


Laurie Lawson:

Yes, owners. OK. How on earth do you convince them, “Hey, this is the way we want to go here. We want to go to the creek.” How do you do that?


Lars Neumann:

I don’t have to convince them. It’s really interesting because of the coaching part. The first part is the coaching part. So I listen, I ask questions, and we get more conscious about their goals. They often don’t know their goals. We all know it as coaches. So they get more conscious about their goals, about their resources. And when a picture comes up that shows all this, that shows this world, that is a metaphor for this world, then they are excited all the time.


Laurie Lawson:

I can certainly see why, and I think it’s courageous on their part also because we all know the profile picture where your head’s supposed to be turned and you have to have a background that looks professional, and then you have a creek, and it’s like, okay, that’s just amazing, Lars, that you can get people to do that. What other kind of photography do you indulge in? Is that it? I mean, which is far more than enough. Are there any others? Because what I see on your website is beautiful landscapes that are just like, “Oh my God, wherever it is, I want to be there.” What else do you do with photography?


Lars Neumann:

I do this. This is my main work, this image distillery, including the personality photography part. But what I do sometimes is—I don’t dare to say it’s a paid hobby—but it’s kind of a paid hobby. I’m a fan of railways, and I love landscapes and railways, and railways and landscapes. So I have the bliss of having a customer here. This is the railway and the public transport network in our area. And they are a customer of mine. And for them, I just sometimes have the honor to photograph locomotives or landscapes. And we have a beautiful landscape here. So this is my paid hobby, so to speak. But not to underrate that.


Laurie Lawson:

No, don’t underrate it. And it seems like you’re almost hesitant to go, “Oh, I love it so much, maybe I shouldn’t be paid for it.” Because I was thinking, there are about four that I would like to reproduce and put on my walls. They are so gorgeous. So keep doing that, whatever you’re doing, because they are wonderful. And it shows your versatility, of course. And that’s probably how you ended up at the creek, because you enjoy the landscape part. Yes, me too. What you’ve done is kind of what Dorota did: take all my skills and put them all together to come up with this wild, new, crazy thing, which is fantastic. I understand that you’re talking about a retreat. What kind of retreat is that, who is it for, and when’s it going to happen? Tell us about that.


Lars Neumann:

Thank you for asking, Laurie. We don’t have a concrete date now. The idea of the retreat is based on—I see so many business owners in the box, not so happy in the box of their industry. Often, their business model is a copy of the industry standards, but they don’t fit into the box anymore. There are so many business owners who are not happy with their program, with their articles, with their pricing, branding, positioning, but they don’t know what’s wrong. They don’t have the idea. They tried out so many different things to correct something. And often, it’s quite simply the fact that they don’t fit into the industry box. That’s it. So the question is, what else? What could be my signature business model? And the retreat is just about offering a place for, yeah, a trusted place for talking about that, for talking about what it was like for the last years to be in the box, not knowing how to change, what to change, and to see, yes, I want to do something different, but I don’t know what. And to exchange and yeah, use photography to explore a little bit more about every single participant, what could be the first ideas for a signature business model.


Laurie Lawson:

Now, do they have to be photographers, or are you going to take care of that?


Lars Neumann:

No, I will take care of that. We will use mobile phones. We call them “Handys” in Germany. We will use the Handys. So, we use the mobile phones. It’s quite enough. It’s not about the quality of photography. You know it from Dorota already. It’s more about what is reflected in the photo. So we will perhaps take a photo walk. We’ll see what happens in the retreat. We will use photography just to explore ourselves a little bit more.


Laurie Lawson:

Amazing. Yeah, because everybody today with the Handy—I love that term—is a photographer, you know, and sometimes to the extreme. But it’s okay, as long as that’s what you want. If you want to reflect your breakfast, it’s all right. It must mean something to you. But it must be fascinating to have someone guide you on that tour. I assume the location will be in Germany somewhere?


Lars Neumann:

No, I’m thinking of Italy.


Laurie Lawson:

Oh, okay.


Lars Neumann:

Yeah, I love Italy. I love the dimensions there, the houses. And this is a good surrounding for having a quiet environment to be by yourself, to connect to yourself. This is the whole idea of the retreat: to connect to yourself, to reconnect.


Laurie Lawson:

Wherever you are. OK, beautiful, beautiful. Because you sort of touched on it, let me ask you—when you say that executives are sometimes in the box, or owners are sometimes in the box, and the box is constricting and they want to get out but they don’t know how—what changes did you see as a result of the pandemic? Have people become more timid, or have they become more like, “Let’s get what we really want now, because who knows what’s going to happen next?” Have you seen any changes in that? Have you seen improvements or declines, or how did that affect your business?


Lars Neumann:

This is really interesting. I would say it was a kind of forced disruption for many people. So sometimes they didn’t come to terms with it. And sometimes they created something new from it. It was different from business to business, I would say. But sometimes, yes, it was like a creative task. So the old box wasn’t there anymore. So what do I do now? And we saw here restaurants who opened their windows, and there was an on-the-spot open-the-window restaurant. It was beautiful. They brought up benches around the house so people could sit outside and just enjoy the boxes from the restaurant outside at the bench. But others just closed the door. So there were many different approaches, I would say.


Laurie Lawson:

Yeah, I agree, and that certainly happened here too. I’m a firm believer in—God knows New York City suffered probably as hard, or if not more, than anyone else. But there are many blessings that came from it. And like you say, sort of the box exploded, you know, what happened to my box and my boundaries and what I should be doing. Which meant that people could retreat, and that was fine, and, you know, whatever you needed to do. Or they could just say, all right, I’m free. How creative can I get? And I’m sure that happened over there too. So yeah, that was good. Again, that was international also. What’s on the horizon for you, Mr. Neumann? It sounds like you’re not a man who stands still and says, okay, I’ve done that. Besides the retreat, which sounds wonderful, is it a one-day retreat, a two-day, a week, or are you still working that out?


Lars Neumann:

I’m still working it out, and it feels like three days.


Laurie Lawson:

Okay, perfect.


Lars Neumann:

Yeah, it’s not done in one day. You have to discuss it with the participants, let it come in, and discuss it again the next day. And seeing it together in the evening is always the best part. So I think we should have three days at least.


Laurie Lawson:

Optimal. But what else do you have planned going on here?


Lars Neumann:

My plan for this year is to be more precise in telling the world what I do. Because this is outside the box, I have the same problem or adventure—however you want to call it—of telling the world what I’m doing. So, bringing more precise language for the distillery, for the Image Distillery, and describing it. And yeah, that’s a task for this year, I would say. It’s enough.


Laurie Lawson:

Yes, more than enough. And I’m so glad you’re continuing and expanding. Do you have any plans on bringing in disciples, so to speak, people that you could teach this whole process to? You do this all by yourself, yes?


Lars Neumann:

Yeah, I do it all by myself. Now, good that you asked—there is something new. There’s something different that’s new, yes. I have to show you. I got a letter. This is called Steinweis. We have the kind of academy, university academy, here. And this year I opened the Institute for Values and Pictures, together with Steinweis. This is on the link between values and pictures, to examine that topic much more—how are values mirrored in pictures, and how to use it for your business? And we will have the first courses this year about that, for photographers.


Laurie Lawson:

That’s new. That’s pretty exciting.


Lars Neumann:

Yes, this will be on the horizon for this year. I think it starts in the second quarter, I would say.


Laurie Lawson:

And you will be an instructor, or a co-creator, or all of the above?


Lars Neumann:

I’m the head and the instructor. So it starts small, but I have Steinweis behind me, and this is a German-wide institution with 1,000 Steinweis businesses. And now I am one of them, with my institute.


Laurie Lawson:

Wow. I am so intrigued by you, Lars, really. Tell me, your photography is one-on-one, face-to-face. Is that unfortunately the only way at this point?


Lars Neumann:

Yes, that’s how I work at the moment.


Laurie Lawson:

Okay. Yeah, because I’d love to become a disciple and see what the heck you’re doing and how you’re doing it. How can people get in touch? Can you give them your website and how they can get in touch with you, and all of that? And if you have an email list, you know, I think people would love to follow what you do. I want to follow what you’re doing, so I think other people would too.


Lars Neumann:

This is one of the things for this year, to be more professional on that. I created a very classic thing here to connect with me. This is just my email address, and I made it like that.


Laurie Lawson:

Oh my gosh. OK, leave it up there for one second. I’m going to ask you to send it to me, but OK. lars@neumann.coach. All right, I love it.


Lars Neumann:

That’s easy, lars@neumann.coach. Yes, okay, and then I will keep people informed as to what’s going on, what new pictures I’ve got, and I will build a little bit more of an information system. I’m not the guy who is too diligent about creating newsletters or something like that, but yeah, when I know people, I will inform people.


Laurie Lawson:

Okay, well, I want to do Lars Neumann Part Two because I’ve got a feeling you have more things going on, but we are out of time, believe it or not. How quickly did this go? So please keep doing what you’re doing. It’s so exciting. And I’m going to join your email list and find out what’s going on because this is so innovative. Lars, thank you so much for being a guest on The Coaching Game. This has been totally fascinating. Thank you.


Lars Neumann:

Thank you, Laurie. Thank you for having me again. It was really fun. It was. Bye-bye.







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